Geelong has slipped back in the race for Brad Ottens and Port Adelaide played hardball on a swap deal for Josh Carr as the 16 AFL clubs met to kick-off trade week.

The Ottens and Carr deals were the two trades upon which all others will hinge and every indication was that they will go down to the wire until Friday's deadline.

The other important swaps under discussion saw Adelaide and West Coast close to agreeing a deal for Tyson Stenglein to join the Eagles, while Richmond grew in confidence that it could get Fremantle's Troy Simmonds for nothing in the pre-season draft.

Richmond ruckman Ottens had Geelong as his preferred destination, but Tigers football manager Greg Miller said the Kangaroos trumped the Cats on day one in the race for Ottens.

"Geelong are doing the best they can, but at this stage I still think the Kangaroos have got the best offer on the table which is pick 10 and something else in the first round, another first round pick," Miller said after the meetings.

"Geelong are trying their hardest to get under that, trying to do a deal with a club below (draft pick) 10.

"They're very genuine in their attempt to have Brad play with them, but I doubt that they'll be able to secure it."

However the situation became more clouded when Kangaroos coach Dean Laidley emerged from the talks at Optus Oval.

"Look guys, honestly, we are just about out of the race for Ottens," Laidley said.

"It's just not going to happen.

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